PhysX Take 2

Anandtech.com put up an article back in September taking a second look at the PhysX performance advantages in City of Heroes and City of Villains.  The results are pretty interesting.  Take a look here.

 

CoV PhysX Review – UPDATE: Screenshots

Anandtech.com has updated their initial review of the Ageia PhysX card. What they've done this time around is include CoV as part of thier review. Here's the direct link to the CoV portion of the review.

VR-Zone has put up their review of the ASUS PhysX card here.

UPDATE: City of Villains player Horatus has taken several screenshots of mayhem missions with the Ageia PhysX card in his system. If you have the card, you'll see many more particle effects than without. You can see this reflected in the styrofoam peanuts scattered across the ground and the extra particles in some of the explosions in his series of screenshots. Thanks to Horatus for providing the screens! His explanations for each screenshot are here.

 

PhysX Observations

TechReport.com takes a look at all of the hubbub around the PhysX PPU. Recently, Ageia has been under fire from physics rival Havok. The first reviews from Hexus.net and Anandtech.com seem to cast an iffy light on Ageia's new hardware. The article links to these reviews as well as the promised Ageia follow-up to Havok's claims from FiringSquad.com. They take a cautionary look at the criticisms and reiterate previously mentioned insight on how Ageia's technology works.

Not a single review of the hardware has "City of" implementations. The test server has a physics slider in the options area and notes whether or not the Ageia PhysX hardware was detected in your system. Last I recall, Cryptic stated that the PhysX implementation is not enabled on the test server yet. Until this is available and people with "City of" accounts test and reveal their experiences with the hardware, we can only hope that Cryptic's implementation on the hardware and software side is better than what's been seen so far.

Update: Thanks to manlyman's post on Shacknews.com, I've downloaded, installed and run the Cell Factor Demo on my non-Ageia hardware based system. If you follow the post, it will tell you how. It was extremely cool! Earlier today, Cryptic enabled the Ageia portion of Issue 7 on the test server! I have the latest Ageia software drivers on my system, so I'm hoping the test server will at least allow for the software based effects to show.

PhysX boards from BFG Technologies and ASUSTeK Computer are available for purchase today. Check your local retailer or online at Newegg, TigerDirect or via Froogle.

 

*Updated* PhysX & Graphics Bound to Raid Your Piggy Bank

PhysX:

According to this blurb from HardOCP, the initial PhysX cards are going to come with 128MB. A 256MB version will not be available until sometime later.

I have been getting mails these last few days talking about Ageia PhysX cards and whether or not they should get the 128MB version from BFGTech or the 256MB version from Asus. Trading an email with Ageia's PR rep, they had this to say about 256MB PhysX cards.

"Though a 256MB configuration was announced in March it has been decided that the 128MB configuration from both companies (BFG and ASUS) will indeed be the only memory configuration put on the market at this time. The 128MB configuration provides game players with all of the PhysX capabilities available. It is and has always been AGEIA's goal to simply provide consumers with the best cutting edge products at the best value.”

FiringSquad.com has an additional write-up here. Ageia is ramping up their PR machine for a mid-May release, so you might be hearing the buzz over Ageia and PhysX for a while.

Graphics:

HardOCP also has covered DirectX 10 hardware and the API (Application Programming Interface). In short, Windows Vista will be the only OS with DirectX 10 support. They point out that it’s unlikely to come to Windows XP in any form. Today’s video cards will be compatible and compliant with Windows Vista, but architecture considerations may result in current boards being slower when executing certain graphic effects with DirectX 10. Newer hardware from both ATI and NVIDIA will be released with DirectX 10 design considerations in mind over the next year. ATI’s x1000 series can be thought of as a hybrid Unified Architecture through the use of their Ultra Threaded designs.

The real interesting part of this article center around the unified architecture approach Microsoft has to the GPU (Graphics Processor Unit – the core of your video card). In essence with a unified architecture (similar to what is in the Xbox360), you can use the GPU for scalable objects, shadows, effects and… physics. Technically, this is already being worked on by Havok with the cooperation of ATI and NVIDIA. Havok based physics which do not rely on a separate hardware physics card like that offered by Ageia is already available in many games such as F.E.A.R., Half-life 2, and The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion.

Piggy Bank Raid:

Now how does all of this relate to “The City of” well, here are my thoughts. The Ageia PhysX hardware will be extremely cool but expensive at first. Once Issue 7 gets released, it’ll be interesting to see the reports from the boards as to how everything runs/looks and what systems they’re running it on. If we’re lucky, we’ll get to see some in-game user made video captures. Keep in mind that there is supposed to be a physics slider of sorts included with the release of I7. This may come as welcome news to those concerned about I7 bringing their system to it's knees.

The graphics side of this post is extremely ATI heavy. “The City of” (an OpenGL based game) tends to run better overall on NVIDIA based graphics cards which work better with OpenGL based games. ATI has had the upper hand with DirectX based games for quite some time. Bearing that and the collaboration with Microsoft for the Xbox 360 in mind, it really shouldn’t be any surprise that current ATI hardware appears to be better suited for DirectX 10. However, it is specifically noted that architectures that have not taken the same design path as ATI will still be supported with DirectX 10. These are just more things to keep in mind when considering an upgrade. While it seems much better to wait until we get closer to the release of Windows Vista to do anything, it might be very expensive to upgrade your operating system, video card and physics card. Upgrading the video card alone may require upgrades for your motherboard, processor and RAM. At that point, it might be a better solution to get a whole new system; which could also be very expensive. Keep in mind that it will take some time for a number of titles that take advantage of the new hardware and development tools to be available. By that time, there will be new hardware. And the vicious circle continues.

For those who can’t wait or are willing to bite the bullet now, buy the card that best suits your gaming. And if you’re a “City of” fiend like the rest of us, an NVIDIA solution seems to be the best choice available.

*Update: Within a day of this post, PC Perspective has put up their experiences with the Ageia PhysX processor in Ghost Recon Advanced War Fighter and Cell Factor. This write-up includes a link to a March 22nd article regarding ATI's architecture and the use of Havok physics acceleration.

*Additionally: Havok has made some unflattering comments and observations regarding the use of the Ageia PPU in Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter over at FiringSquad.com. One of their points relys on a user's comments in a forum. It's the following comments that "City of" players should keep an eye on:

"Multiple direct tests on the game by using NVIDIA’s and ATI GPUs indicate the GPU has room to spare and in fact, if the PPU is factored out of the game, that the particle content generated by the PPU can easily be drawn at full game speeds by the GPU. So the introduction of the PPU most certainly appears to be the cause of the slow down in this case. NVIDIA specifically can technically verify that the GPU is not the cause of the slowdown."

Now, this is only one game.  It's the first playable game that uses Ageia's PhysX PPU. There's plenty of room for improvements on its implementation.  There is likely room for debate as to who or what is at fault for the slowdown. FiringSquad.com states at the end of the brief that they intend to get comments from Ageia regarding Havok's comments.

In the "City of" forums, FatherXmas has pointed out a nice Hexus.net review of the Ageia PPU.

Stay tuned, true believers!  It's Clobberin' Time!

 

When PhysX and Graphics Collide

With the upcoming release of Issue 7, more people are asking about Ageia’s PhysX technology. Ageia’s PhysX NovodeX Physics Software is incorporated into City of Heroes and City of Villains (CoX) and will be experienced to some extent by all players. Issue 7 introduces Ageia’s hardware based PhysX processor (PPU) technology to CoX. This requires a separate card to be installed into your computer in an available PCI slot. The Ageia PPU (Physics Processing Unit) works with your existing video card to bring more immersive game play to you by allowing an unbelievable number of objects to act and behave in a realistic manner not possible before. BFG Technologies and Asus will be bringing these cards to retail May 2006. Ageia PhysX PPU cards are currently available in new systems released by Dell and Alienware (which was purchased by Dell).

So, what’s possible in existing systems and what needs to be taken into consideration? The first thing you need to do is take a look at your graphics card. Chances are most of you have AGP based graphics cards in your systems. AGP graphics cards require an AGP slot on the motherboard. It’s also good to keep in mind that some new computers have motherboards with PCI-e slots while others only have PCI slots (PCI slots are not the same as PCI-e slots). Nearly all AGP, PCI-e and PCI based motherboards have a spare PCI slot. For AGP owners who do not want to consider replacing their motherboard, processor and likely their RAM, the best current option is an NVIDIA 7800GS 256MB AGP. NVIDIA 6600 and 6800 based boards are available and less expensive. They are fantastic cards and should be considered if your budget is $149 or less. Graphics cards with a minimum of 128MB of RAM would be decent. It is rumored that hardware manufacturers may release a 7600 based AGP board. The pricing for 7600 based AGP solutions is thought to be between $149-$299 and if released would offer more for your dollar than the current 6600 and 6800 based solutions. Several different manufacturers produce boards with NVIDIA based GPUs. BFG Technologies, eVGA and XFX sell versions of the 7800GS board with lifetime warranties. As of this post, the lowest price I’ve found is via Newegg.com which sells an eVGA version for $284 +$4.69 shipping. Currently there’s a $15 rebate as well. So, it’d be $273.69 after all is said and done with the *graphics* side.

What about the Ageia card? The PCI based Ageia PhysX card will initially be manufactured by Asus and BFG Technologies and is expected to be available for purchase in May 2006. Those boards are rumored to sell somewhere between $199-$299. If you recall from my Infamy Unlimited post Like Destruction? Become A PhysX Major!, a Firingsquad.com article stated that the settings for two top of the line NVIDIA 7800GTX cards in SLI (two cards work as one on a PCI-e (not AGP) graphics bus) had to be toned down in order to allow the presentation to run smoothly (it wasn’t CoX). Though that should be a consideration when deciding if an Ageia PhysX card is in your future, a single 7800GS with or without the Ageia based card is still a fantastic solution. Keep in mind, there’s nothing preventing a user who already owns an NVIDIA based 6600 or 6800 system from purchasing an Ageia PhysX board. Chances are it will work and allow the features of the PhysX board to be used. To what extent has not been shown in any preview I’ve seen though.

Need to know stuff:

- Like video cards, more powerful Ageia cards will be released at some point. Currently, there’s no notation on how the differing boards affect game play.

- CoX is an OpenGL based (not DirectX based) game. This is the primary reason as to why NVIDIA based solutions run better with CoX. Note that while ATI has addressed some CoX based issues, they have yet to correct all issues with CoX since they were first reported over 7 months ago. This is part of the reason why the CoX community (myself included now) have moved away from ATI based solutions for CoX. There’s more to this but, you get the idea.

- AGP bus based cards were supposed to no longer be in production by now. However, the number of people that would consider and/or have bought upgrades for AGP systems has kept manufacturers making AGP solutions for longer than expected.

- “SLI” is not possible with AGP

- The 7800GS is currently the top of the line AGP GPU solution from NVIDIA.

- 7600 GPU based AGP boards are rumored to possibly come out sometime in the next few months. They are pin compatible with the PCI-e based 7600 boards (which were just released in mid-March). This and rumored mullings from manufacturers are reasons why a quick release for AGP versions of this GPU are believed to be in the hopper.

- NVIDIA is set to release 8000 series cards with DirectX 10 compatibility and more eye candy features sometime this summer (typically June/July). This will likely be expensive and introduced as a PCI-e only solution for quite some time. The 7800GS was released on February 2nd, 2006. The 7000 series of processors was introduced on June 22nd, 2005. Based on that, the recent introduction of the 7800GS series and the expectation of 7600 based boards in the next couple of months, AGP based 8000 boards are not expected to be available for some time, if ever. If they are (as the 7600 series is) pin compatible with what would be AGP counterparts, then it is *possible*. Typically though, flagship GPU solutions are released first and refinement solutions such as a budget minded “8600″ series likely will not be released for some time. NVIDIA has been known to pleasantly surprise the public though.

- All DirectX 9 graphics solutions are compatible with Windows Vista per Microsoft’s Windows Vista Capable PC Hardware Guidelines

- XNA Architecture was introduced in March of 2005 with ease of development transition for Xbox/Xbox 360 and PC based titles in mind.

- The Xbox 360 is based around an ATI GPU. Windows Vista’s graphics layer and DirectX 10 which uses XNA Architecture were developed with the assistance of ATI.

- Most games up until this point were developed with NVIDIA based boards in the dev’s systems. It’s believed that most still are using NVIDIA based solutions. Electronic Arts and several other development houses and publishers have specifically signed agreements with NVIDIA. Though they are largely marketing techniques, certain developers (such as Cryptic) specifically take advantage of NVIDIA based solutions. Microsoft’s recent push for their XNA Architecture based products (Xbox 360 and Windows Vista) may have an effect on the long standing custom of developers using NVIDIA based solutions and optimizations for their games.

- Per Wikipedia: A shader is a program executed concurrently (with other shaders) by multiple graphic processors running in parallel on a video card.

- ATI’s current generation products have significantly more pixel shaders than their current competing NVIDIA adversaries.

- Two next generation games F.E.A.R. and The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion show slightly improved performance and visual quality with ATI based solutions which have more pixel shaders.

- Microsoft has long said the next generation of games will involve the use of more pixel shaders than current generation games. This however also plays into Microsoft’s Xbox 360 agenda.

- Currently, it’s generally accepted that NVIDIA’s current product lineup has more efficient designs while their current ATI counterparts have more cutting edge technology. At one point, the reverse was generally accepted. Both positions have been promoted as strengths by both companies whenever the situation suited. In other words, they’re in the buisness to sell video cards. ATI is releasing newer technology and NVIDIA is refining their previous technology.

- It is rumored that NVIDIA is set to introduce a new high end enthusiast “Tritium” platform this summer. This amounts to high end certification of top tier products. This should only be a consideration if you plan on spending big bucks on an entirely new system.

- Intel’s latest processor due this fall has been knocking the socks off of current gen processors. It’s very impressive, but again should only be a consideration if you’re planning on spending big bucks on an entirely new system.

- Technology always gets better. “As soon as you buy it, a better and cheaper one comes out.”

Links:

HardOCP’s High-End Video Card Comparison

GPU Review’s fantastic Video Card Comparison Database

The Unofficial Ageia PhysX & PPU Links & Info Page

EDIT: It should be noted that a 7600 series AGP solution has yet to be confirmed. As a result, we’ve updated the article to reflect this. A number of tech sites have said that a 7600 release on AGP has been mulled by manufacturers. Several mentions of this have spread like wildfire across multiple forums all over the internet. Unfortunately at this point, we can only catagorize a 7600 series AGP release as wide speculation.

Sources:

http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=30223

http://www.techspot.com/news/21303-could-we-see-a-7600-gt-and-7900-gt-for-agp.html

 

Like Destruction? Become A PhysX Major!

Monday, Ageia along with Cryptic Studios announced support for Ageia’s PhysX Processor. The PhysX Processor allows for more complex object interaction and display in games programmed specifically for its usage. To get a better understanding of how this can enhance your experience, please take a look at the press release below:

NCsoft and Cryptic Studios to Support AGEIA PhysX Processor in Award-Winning City of Villains

Popular New MMORPG to Increase Number and Intensity of Physics-Based Environments and Effects

MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. – March 21, 2006 – AGEIA™ Technologies, Inc., the pioneer in hardware-accelerated physics for games, today announced that City of Villains™ developer Cryptic Studios plans to supercharge the game’s powers and effects for players whose PCs are equipped with Physics Accelerator add-in boards powered by the AGEIA PhysX™ processor. The standalone sequel to the hugely popular City of Heroes from NCsoft, City of Villains was an immediate hit among MMORPG fans and critics alike with its intense interactivity and exceptional particle systems.

While all City of Villains players benefit from the game’s software physics created by the AGEIA PhysX SDK, players with PhysX Accelerator cards will experience some 10 times the number of particles displayed in physics-based events, resulting in an even more immersive experience. For example:

* Mayhem Missions, which are set in a destructible environment, have destroyed objects taking greater advantage of the physics effects, such as a newspaper vending machine which, when blown up, shreds thousands of particles of paper around it.
* Physics particles can be affected by external forces. For example, the shredded bits from the newspaper machine linger in the air only to be blown away by other explosions.
* World geometry will be retrofitted with reactive physics effects, such as leaves being dropped from trees when a Power Blast is cast nearby.

“City of Villains players with PhysX-based Physics Accelerator add-in boards in their PCs will be blown away by the added realism and immersiveness of the game,” said Michael Lewis, CEO of Cryptic Studios. “While the ability to succeed in the game will be unaffected, the overall user experience will be greatly enhanced through support for the AGEIA PhysX processor.”

“The team at Cryptic Studios is among the most talented in the business, and it’s exciting to see them apply their wizardry using AGEIA PhysX technology,” said Kathy Schoback, vice president of content acquisition at AGEIA. “City of Villains is already a one-of-a-kind game experience, but the action acceleration of the AGEIA PhysX processor will take it to an entirely new level.”

Source: http://ageia.vnewscenter.com/press.jsp?id=1141898679390

Initially, only new systems built by Dell and Alienware (recently purchased by Dell) will have the cards available. System board add-on manufacturers BFG Technologies and ASUS are set to release add-on boards for the rest of us this May. Price estimations are in the $250 range for the initial PCI based release. There are rumors of a PCI-e release for a more powerful version of the processor at some point in time in the future. Footage of the PhysX Processor can be found here.

With all the excitement around this truly amazing product, there is a reason for some concern. In a recent FiringSquad article, it was noted “…there were so many objects on screen that the texture detail had to be toned down a tad just to get the game to run at an acceptable framerate. Yep, the graphics chip got overwhelmed by the demo, not the physics chip. The demo was being run on an Alienware rig with an Athlon 64 FX-60 CPU from AMD and dual NVIDIA 7800 GTX graphics cards running in SLI mode.”

Also, in a separate interview with bit-tech.net, Ageia’s Andy Hess commented: “When you have a PhysX processor in your system, you’ve gotta have that SLI. You’ve gotta have both graphics cards to handle the amount of data that we send out. We keep those guys really busy.”

While exciting and impressive, it also sounds potentially expensive. While acknowledging that “inexpensive” and “new technology” rarely go hand-in-hand, one would hope that a happy medium would be available for the majority of people who do not have Nvidia SLI based computers.

For your knowledge, Nvidia SLI allows for multiple graphics cards to be used in a system with an SLI compatible motherboard. Graphics performance is then scaled across these boards to yield greater performance. Nvidia claims that SLI can be enabled for every gaming application and has over 200 game profiles that have SLI optimizations. If the game is not listed, you can create your own SLI profile for the game. I have no personal experience with this. A quick scan of the listed games does not show City of Heroes or City of Villains. Nvidia’s SLIZone has guidance on creating a customized profile.

Separately, Nvidia announced a collaboration with Havok to produce the worlds first GPU-Powered game physics solution. There was no mention of City of Heroes or City of Villains. Cryptic’s sites clearly show support Ageia PhysX technology. I’m not sure how likely they would be to include support for Havok technology as well. Only time will tell.